God
cannot “tell the future” because for God there is NO “future”. God is
completely outside of time, He is in eternity. Time is just a measure of
change in the world which He created, the world which we live in.
Think
of yourself as God looking down at the edge of the table in front of
you. Put your hands out on either side. At your left hand is the
“beginning of the world” and at your right the end of the world. And
that whole edge in between is time, where we live now.
Boom,
God CREATES the entire thing, all at once, from His point of view. Thus
from God’s point of view, everything is visible in the same instant,
there is no future nor past.
And
He knew before He created Lucifer, or Adam and Eve, or you and me, for
that matter, that we would all sin and fall. So why did He do it anyway?
Because He created us out of love, and gave us free will. In order for
us to have free will to freely love Him, we must have the choice to make
the wrong decision and sin.
He
does not want us to sin, nor even Lucifer, as He loves all of us. But
He loves us enough to respect our decision. If He only created people
that He knew would love Him, that would not be true freedom.
We
cannot understand the entire plan of God while we are still here on
earth, and cannot see to the end. But we know that by allowing free
will, and allowing people and angels to sin and rebel, God is going to
bring a greater good out of it than could otherwise have been.
Men,
humans, HAD to be tried, and tested. Thus they had to be allowed to
experience temptation. And Satan, in his revolt, is actually working the
Will of God, even if it is against his (Satan’s will) - this infuriates
him to an unbelievable degree and we must stay very close to God’s Will
if we are going to be able to survive Satan’s fury.
Because
Satan was the most powerful angel ever created, and he retains all his
power, and all his intelligence. He does not sleep, and he is eons old,
and has a LOT of experience. There is no way we could stand up against
him for an instant without God’s grace. So never think for an instant
that you could.
Let’s
get one thing correct at least, Lucifer is NOT another name for the
devil (as your question implies) care should be taken in the application
of scriptures….Lucifer (Hebrew Hel-lel meaning shining one) is a term
used in the KJV at Isa 14:12–16, most other bibles translate Hel-lel
shining one and this term is mentioned several times in Isa 14 and it is
a reference to the Babylonian dynasty of kings who viewed themselves
almost as Gods and it mentions the “shining one being brought down to
Sheol” (Hebrew for grave) and as Satan is a spirit creature not a human
he cannot be put in a grave.
Jehovah’s
people, too, need to be cautious in the applying of scriptures so that
they correctly present God’s Word in their preaching and teaching
activity. As an example, take the statement that is sometimes made that
one of the names given to Satan the Devil is Lucifer. Reference may be
made by some to Isaiah 14:12-16. According to the Authorized Version (King James),
verse twelve says: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of
the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the
nations!” The word “Lucifer” is a translation of the Hebrew word heh·lelʹ, “shining one.” Heh·lelʹ, as
here used, is not a personal name or a title, but, rather, a term
describing the brilliant position taken by Babylon’s dynasty of kings in
the line of Nebuchadnezzar. It would not be correct to say that Satan
the Devil is the one here called Lucifer as though it were one of his
names. The expression here refers primarily to the king of Babylon, for,
according to verse four, this is a “proverbial saying against the king
of Babylon.” Also, Isa 14 verses fifteen and sixteen
of this chapter fourteen say that this “shining one” (Lucifer) is to be
brought down to Sheol, which is mankind’s common grave, not an abiding
place for Satan the Devil. Furthermore, the fact is that those seeing
this “shining one” brought into this condition say: “Is this the man that
was agitating the earth, that was making kingdoms rock?” Satan is not a
man but an invisible spirit creature. Thus, while the king of Babylon
reflected the attitude of his father, the Devil, still the word Lucifer
was not a name given to Satan the Devil.
Also
Jehovah God can choose to see the future but that does not mean that he
does, as Bob a friend of mine often says “God is no more obligated to
look into the future than you or I would be to look at the last page of a
whodunnit.”
God
Almighty, Yahweh by name in Hebrew, Jehovah in the English has a unique
and necessary ability in order to allow free will among HIS creatures.
He can CHOOSE what HE wished to foresee and what HE does not wish to
foresee. This is necessary if HIS creation, angels and humans have “free
will” and able to decide for themselves what course of action to take
under any circumstances.
To
FORESEE the future is to change it. Once Jehovah foresees an event, it
must happen because HE has foreseen it to happen. That is how HE is able
to make accurate prophesies of future events. Foreseeing the future
creates a “closed loop” if you will. Because it was foreseen then it
will occur as foreseen.
Because
of this “phenomenon” Jehovah chooses NOT to foresee the future of ANY
individual except as it is necessary to HIS purpose. HE did NOT foresee
that the angel known as Satan would rebel and HE did not foresee that
Adam would join that rebellion. To have done so would have removed their
free choice as HE would have already foreseen their actions, thus they
would HAVE to have occurred. If that were the case, Jehovah could well
have been held responsible for Satan’s rebellion and Adam’s fall because
he foresaw those events and did nothing to prevent or change them.
Question:
If God Almighty can tell the future, he would know that Lucifer would create
hell and sin. Why wouldn't he stop this if he knew that it would affect
humans?
Answer:
According to the tenets of the major faiths that recognize Lucifer, he
did not create either Hell or sin. God/YHWH/Allah created everything
that was, is and will be and that includes hell and sin.
Many
theists of these faiths will deny that their god created sin and place
this on the actions of meen but that is a cop-out. if the god is
Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent then the god created Lucifer,
Sin, Hell, Atheists, all the false religions and pretend gods.
These gods get all the credit for the good and none of the blame for the bad…what a great gig.
God
cannot “tell the future” because for God there is NO “future”. God is
completely outside of time, He is in eternity. Time is just a measure of
change in the world which He created, the world which we live in.
Think
of yourself as God looking down at the edge of the table in front of
you. Put your hands out on either side. At your left hand is the
“beginning of the world” and at your right the end of the world. And
that whole edge in between is time, where we live now.
Boom,
God CREATES the entire thing, all at once, from His point of view. Thus
from God’s point of view, everything is visible in the same instant,
there is no future nor past.
And
He knew before He created Lucifer, or Adam and Eve, or you and me, for
that matter, that we would all sin and fall. So why did He do it anyway?
Because He created us out of love, and gave us free will. In order for
us to have free will to freely love Him, we must have the choice to make
the wrong decision and sin.
He
does not want us to sin, nor even Lucifer, as He loves all of us. But
He loves us enough to respect our decision. If He only created people
that He knew would love Him, that would not be true freedom.
We
cannot understand the entire plan of God while we are still here on
earth, and cannot see to the end. But we know that by allowing free
will, and allowing people and angels to sin and rebel, God is going to
bring a greater good out of it than could otherwise have been.
Men,
humans, HAD to be tried, and tested. Thus they had to be allowed to
experience temptation. And Satan, in his revolt, is actually working the
Will of God, even if it is against his (Satan’s will) - this infuriates
him to an unbelievable degree and we must stay very close to God’s Will
if we are going to be able to survive Satan’s fury.
Because
Satan was the most powerful angel ever created, and he retains all his
power, and all his intelligence. He does not sleep, and he is eons old,
and has a LOT of experience. There is no way we could stand up against
him for an instant without God’s grace. So never think for an instant
that you could.
Let’s
get one thing correct at least, Lucifer is NOT another name for the
devil (as your question implies) care should be taken in the application
of scriptures….Lucifer (Hebrew Hel-lel meaning shining one) is a term
used in the KJV at Isa 14:12–16, most other bibles translate Hel-lel
shining one and this term is mentioned several times in Isa 14 and it is
a reference to the Babylonian dynasty of kings who viewed themselves
almost as Gods and it mentions the “shining one being brought down to
Sheol” (Hebrew for grave) and as Satan is a spirit creature not a human
he cannot be put in a grave.
Jehovah’s
people, too, need to be cautious in the applying of scriptures so that
they correctly present God’s Word in their preaching and teaching
activity. As an example, take the statement that is sometimes made that
one of the names given to Satan the Devil is Lucifer. Reference may be
made by some to Isaiah 14:12-16. According to the Authorized Version (King James),
verse twelve says: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of
the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the
nations!” The word “Lucifer” is a translation of the Hebrew word heh·lelʹ, “shining one.” Heh·lelʹ, as
here used, is not a personal name or a title, but, rather, a term
describing the brilliant position taken by Babylon’s dynasty of kings in
the line of Nebuchadnezzar. It would not be correct to say that Satan
the Devil is the one here called Lucifer as though it were one of his
names. The expression here refers primarily to the king of Babylon, for,
according to verse four, this is a “proverbial saying against the king
of Babylon.” Also, Isa 14 verses fifteen and sixteen
of this chapter fourteen say that this “shining one” (Lucifer) is to be
brought down to Sheol, which is mankind’s common grave, not an abiding
place for Satan the Devil. Furthermore, the fact is that those seeing
this “shining one” brought into this condition say: “Is this the man that
was agitating the earth, that was making kingdoms rock?” Satan is not a
man but an invisible spirit creature. Thus, while the king of Babylon
reflected the attitude of his father, the Devil, still the word Lucifer
was not a name given to Satan the Devil.
Also
Jehovah God can choose to see the future but that does not mean that he
does, as Bob a friend of mine often says “God is no more obligated to
look into the future than you or I would be to look at the last page of a
whodunnit.”
God
Almighty, Yahweh by name in Hebrew, Jehovah in the English has a unique
and necessary ability in order to allow free will among HIS creatures.
He can CHOOSE what HE wished to foresee and what HE does not wish to
foresee. This is necessary if HIS creation, angels and humans have “free
will” and able to decide for themselves what course of action to take
under any circumstances.
To
FORESEE the future is to change it. Once Jehovah foresees an event, it
must happen because HE has foreseen it to happen. That is how HE is able
to make accurate prophesies of future events. Foreseeing the future
creates a “closed loop” if you will. Because it was foreseen then it
will occur as foreseen.
Because
of this “phenomenon” Jehovah chooses NOT to foresee the future of ANY
individual except as it is necessary to HIS purpose. HE did NOT foresee
that the angel known as Satan would rebel and HE did not foresee that
Adam would join that rebellion. To have done so would have removed their
free choice as HE would have already foreseen their actions, thus they
would HAVE to have occurred. If that were the case, Jehovah could well
have been held responsible for Satan’s rebellion and Adam’s fall because
he foresaw those events and did nothing to prevent or change them.
Question:
If God Almighty can tell the future, he would know that Lucifer would create
hell and sin. Why wouldn't he stop this if he knew that it would affect
humans?
Answer:
According to the tenets of the major faiths that recognize Lucifer, he
did not create either Hell or sin. God/YHWH/Allah created everything
that was, is and will be and that includes hell and sin.
Many
theists of these faiths will deny that their god created sin and place
this on the actions of meen but that is a cop-out. if the god is
Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent then the god created Lucifer,
Sin, Hell, Atheists, all the false religions and pretend gods.
These gods get all the credit for the good and none of the blame for the bad…what a great gig.
Luke 16:31“And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”
Forknowledge
does not mean that God will intervene in every situation. He has given
man free will and God respects that. The whole creation was created so
that man could operate independently. God intervenes when asked to in
prayer. God or Jesus could appear in the sky at any time and say, “I am
God believe in me and have everlasting life!” Yet he doesn't.
People
would not choose God even if he did that. And that would limit the
faith of those who would actually believe in faith. The reality is, if
you create a perfect being and gave them free choice, they will choose
evil. This is the reality God has to deal with. So instead of doubting
God’s goodness and wreck your own faith (bad idea), simple believe God
is good and will always be just. That is the safest place to be!
Hell
was created by God for the devil and the fallen angels. Man was never
suppose to go there. True theology will teach you that man’s heart is
very evil and only God can make a person reborn and change them.
Luke 16:19-31 KJVS
[19]
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine
linen, and fared sumptuously every day: [20] And there was a certain
beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, [21]
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's
table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. [22] And it came to
pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's
bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; [23] And in hell he lift
up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus
in his bosom. [24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on
me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water,
and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. [25] But Abraham
said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good
things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and
thou art tormented. [26] And beside all this, between us and you there
is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you
cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. [27]
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him
to my father's house: [28] For I have five brethren; that he may
testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. [29]
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear
them. [30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them
from the dead, they will repent. [31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Certainly
God knew the devil would tempt Adam and cause him to fall. So why would
God not even go as far as preventing the devil from doing so?
The
answer is simple and it is because God does all things through
righteousness and perfection. He knew even before satan knew that he
would rebel against him. God being God could have simply spoke satan
from existence with a single word, but he did not. The reason why is
because God is righteous, Holy.
So
instead of destroying satan, he allowed satan to destroy himself by
providing satan with enough rope it would result in his ultimate demise.
When
satan sent the fallen angels to earth to kill the first born males in
Bethlehem in the attempt to kill God’s Son born into the world, it
resulted in his being cast out of Heaven. Revelations 12
So it could be said that God was building up a case against the devil.
First
the devil rebelled against God. He then caused the fall of man. He then
tried to have God’s Son murdered at birth. All these things had him
cast from Heaven and now he awaits eternal judgement as does mankind.
God
can predict the future based on current events - he cannot control the
future. If you are constantly running out into traffic without looking
both ways I can certainly predict with a high degree of confidence that
you will be eventually hit by a car. God tells you not to do that in an
effort to protect you but if you insist on continuing to do it anyway
that is not his problem - what do you want him to do - control all the
traffic around you so that you can do what you want?
Lucifer did not create hell - God did.
Lucifer
did not create sin - God gave us free will - if we choose good there is
no evil and no sin - if we choose bad there is evil and sin. We have
the ability to abolish the evil in this world by rejecting evil and
choosing good.
God
cannot stop evil - the only way to do that would be to take away our
free will - if he were to do that we would be nothing but puppets or
robots.
I don’t
want to give up my free will - do you? I don’t want God to just control
my every action and the actions of others. I want to fight against evil
and win. Life is a challenge - you don’t just get a ribbon for showing
up.
In
the parable of wheat and tares (Matt 13:24–30) Jesus explains that the
enemy has sown tares (weeds that look like wheat, but don’t bear fruit)
among the good wheat plants, and his servants want to go pull-up the
tares (unbelievers) so their presence doesn’t starve the wheat (the
believers) of nutrients - but the master said no - you might harm the
wheat when doing that. Let them grow together, and we’ll take them all
at harvest time.
Jesus
later describes this as an end-of-days scenario when he reconciles all
things, and the wheat is brought into the storehouse and the tares are
burned along with the chaff from the wheat.
The
threshing-floor is also an example, where people throw wheat and its
chaff into the air, and the wind carries the chaff away while the
heavier wheat falls to the floor. The wind is likened to heresy, such as
atheism, and its presence is necessary to assist in dividing the wheat
(believers) from the chaff (unbelievers).
God
knows how all this affects humans, and the affect he’s primarily
looking for is loyalty. Which of his creation will declare loyalty to
him, and this is only possible if they have a real choice, and the real
power to choose.
You
are correct in that God created time, and exists at the beginning of
time, the end of time, and all points in between, all at the same time.
This is why the Passover and the Crucifixion dovetail so perfectly,
because God sees them simultaneously. The Apostle John was whisked into
the future by God and shown things which John said physically transpired
on his eyes, not an ethereal vision - he said “I looked” and “I saw” -
literally seeing these things.
God
also says in times past he “winked” at sin. He turned a blind eye to
it. How can an infinite God turn a blind eye to anything? He does it
because he also has a choice, and turning a blind eye, in anticipation
of the ultimate solution (Jesus Christ) brought him greater glory that
to judge sin “in real time”.
A
the transfiguration, Jesus spoke to Elijah and Moses. These were not
resurrected ghosts or apparitions. Jesus clearly folded time and space
to bring these two prophets to him at the same time. Where the prophets
were standing, in their own time, and where Jesus was standing, in his
present time, were folded into one place and time. Is this why Jesus
glorified in this event, that to invoke such laws of the universe
required his higher powers above the physical plane, and his accessing
of those laws caused his heavenly glory to “bleed through” his earthly
body?
Lucifer didn’t create hell:
God
says he prepared the lake of fire for the devil and his angels and
their eternal punishment. He does not say human beings are eternally
“punished”. He likens it to the wheat and tares above, where the trash
is burned, and destroyed. “Fear him which is able to destroy both soul
and body in hell” (Matt 10:28)
Everyone
- believer and unbeliever, are resurrected (John 5:29) in soul and
body. Some are resurrected to life, others forever lost, annihilated,
perished.
Lucifer didn’t create sin:
“By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin” (Rom 5:12) -
It
is a common practice when building a large-scale, mission-critical
system, to have automatic recovery failsafes built-in to the primary
architecture, not an afterthought. It is not a “plan B” to fail-over,
but part of the original, planned architecture.
Jesus
is called “the lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:9) -
his Crucifixion to redeem the entire creation, not just mankind, is a
foundation stone of the whole creation, not an afterthought, or a God
scrambling to fix what is broken.
Omniscient
and omnipotent are not taught in the bible. What I am trying say is,
God doesn’t spell out specifically that he does both. It’s only human
point of view and assumption.
God
is all powerful but doesn’t necessary know 100% what’s going to happen.
If he did, then it had already happened and all this is just a rerun.
What was the whole point?
No,
God knew enough because he is wise and full of wisdom. As a father, if I
see my son carelessly jumping around with laptop in his hands you would
surely see me shouting at him that he is risking breaking the laptop
and advise him to put it down. Does that mean I am omniscient?
How
about if I told my son that I will take him to the pool next Sunday and
it’s Sunday, and we did go to the pool, does that mean I can predict
the future? It’s absurd when put it this way right? But that is exactly
what God does, he planned and then carried out his goals. He knew us
enough to know what is going to happen. He is God after all.
Finally,
remember the most the simplest answer is usually the correct answer.
God, our God is God of logic, reasons and order. No mind bending trick
or upside down thinking necessary. Trust in your instinct, if it doesn’t
make sense, you are probably right.
The
whole story of Lucifer is an urban myth based on a single verse in the
Bible that calls a pagan king by the name of a planet for poetic effect
as is common in prophecy.
There
never was a rebel angel, neither did any such character cause sin, nor
was there any creation of a place called hell. Anything you read about
these things in scripture have to be discerned in context.
The
questioner is completely deceived by popular mythology and a look at
that subject will reveal why it persists. Nothing of that story is in
the Bible but people love that kind of thing and will misread, misquote
and misconstrue the Bible and thereby accuse God himself without
blinking an eyelid, and still call themselves Christians.
First
of all, let me state that I believe the God, Satan/Lucifer and all the
rest as characters in a story … a story meant to transmit some teachings
to humanity, but a story nevertheless.
Back
to the God knows Lucifer would tempt. Well, that’s the whole idea isn’t
it?! How can you reward a person for being good if they haven’t been
tempted to be bad. If doing bad things was never a choice, you cannot be
considered good … you never had a choice. It is only when you are
tempted to expand yourself at the expense of others, to hurt others in
your process of following pleasures … that you are tested and you show
who you are. Again, I do not believe in this whole thing necessarily,
all I’m saying is, the problem is not with God … it’s with our choices.
I’m an atheist/agnostic myself, but I find those people who hate God to
be sc*m, most of the times. It is only when you are arrogant sc*m that
you hate God, otherwise you would at the most be indifferent and just
learn something from the story.
Affecting humans was the whole point of “the plan.”
It
was the all knowing, all perfect, all loving, all powerful
creator/judger’s utterly unnecessary, intentionally cruel way of
pretending to learn what it already knew about the souls it had created
(and which were already in heaven with it), in order to “judge” the
souls for being what it created them to be, allowing those it made well
to return and stay in heaven after a brief (earthly) departure while
blocking and abandoning the remainder to eternal suffering.
Makes “perfect” sense.
Ok turn it around Why would he stop Lucifer at all?
For Gog to be all good someone has to be all evil.
There isn’t “light” without “darkness’.
IF
God exist and he is good, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent why would
he create a being that is evil. So something there is wrong he must not
be good or omniscient or omnipotent or omnipresent or exist.
Pick one the best option and that is He doesn’t exist.
The other options are worse because then He exist has the power to end the suffering and does nothing.
P.S.:
I’m not trying to change the mind of anyone if you believe in any
God/God’s you have my respect for believing in something you can see or
feel, just having faith.
Where did you learn your theology?
Lucifer did NOT create Sin and Hell…
God created Sin as a test to humans and Hell as a punishment for their transgressions.
Lucifer was the 1st Angel- the one loved above all others by God.
But
he argued with God about Humans (he thought God was wrong to allow pain
and suffering or free-will) so God cast him out and made him guardian
of Hell and the punisher of the sinful.
God judges how we face choices and if we sin…then decides whether or not to forgive us for it.
HOWEVER:
If you are a TRUE Christian, you know that Christ died to save us from
our Sins and all we have to do is acknowledge our sin, accept
responsibility for what we did and ask forgiveness and we are saved.
First off what a concoction of misinformation and preconceived ideas this question is. Yes God knows the beginning from the end
Second Lucifer is a preference to the planet Venus in Isiah 14 so nothing to do with a “devil”
Interestingly Jesus calls himself the bright and morning star in revelation 22 vs 16
*[[Rev
22:16]] KJ2000* I Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto you these
things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Hell is simply a hole in the ground in which you are buried when you die.
And sin is the freewill bad decisions we make and death is the consequences of those decisions.
You
give far too much credit to Lucifer, as do most people. Such things are
gnostic poppycock designed to sell entertainment Lucifer created
neither sin nor hell. They are not things created. They are the negation
ofnsomething. And why blame god for humans’ decisions. It was there
decision not his.
The
bible doesn’t teach either of those claims. Lucifer was the king of
Babylon. Sheol, hades, hell mean covered or unseen i.e. the grave. If
your serious about understanding the literature of the OT and NT authors
you are going to need to read up on it.
Luke 16:31“And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”
Forknowledge
does not mean that God will intervene in every situation. He has given
man free will and God respects that. The whole creation was created so
that man could operate independently. God intervenes when asked to in
prayer. God or Jesus could appear in the sky at any time and say, “I am
God believe in me and have everlasting life!” Yet he doesn't.
People
would not choose God even if he did that. And that would limit the
faith of those who would actually believe in faith. The reality is, if
you create a perfect being and gave them free choice, they will choose
evil. This is the reality God has to deal with. So instead of doubting
God’s goodness and wreck your own faith (bad idea), simple believe God
is good and will always be just. That is the safest place to be!
Hell
was created by God for the devil and the fallen angels. Man was never
suppose to go there. True theology will teach you that man’s heart is
very evil and only God can make a person reborn and change them.
Luke 16:19-31 KJVS
[19]
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine
linen, and fared sumptuously every day: [20] And there was a certain
beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, [21]
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's
table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. [22] And it came to
pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's
bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; [23] And in hell he lift
up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus
in his bosom. [24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on
me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water,
and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. [25] But Abraham
said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good
things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and
thou art tormented. [26] And beside all this, between us and you there
is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you
cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. [27]
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him
to my father's house: [28] For I have five brethren; that he may
testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. [29]
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear
them. [30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them
from the dead, they will repent. [31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Certainly
God knew the devil would tempt Adam and cause him to fall. So why would
God not even go as far as preventing the devil from doing so?
The
answer is simple and it is because God does all things through
righteousness and perfection. He knew even before satan knew that he
would rebel against him. God being God could have simply spoke satan
from existence with a single word, but he did not. The reason why is
because God is righteous, Holy.
So
instead of destroying satan, he allowed satan to destroy himself by
providing satan with enough rope it would result in his ultimate demise.
When
satan sent the fallen angels to earth to kill the first born males in
Bethlehem in the attempt to kill God’s Son born into the world, it
resulted in his being cast out of Heaven. Revelations 12
So it could be said that God was building up a case against the devil.
First
the devil rebelled against God. He then caused the fall of man. He then
tried to have God’s Son murdered at birth. All these things had him
cast from Heaven and now he awaits eternal judgement as does mankind.
God
can predict the future based on current events - he cannot control the
future. If you are constantly running out into traffic without looking
both ways I can certainly predict with a high degree of confidence that
you will be eventually hit by a car. God tells you not to do that in an
effort to protect you but if you insist on continuing to do it anyway
that is not his problem - what do you want him to do - control all the
traffic around you so that you can do what you want?
Lucifer did not create hell - God did.
Lucifer
did not create sin - God gave us free will - if we choose good there is
no evil and no sin - if we choose bad there is evil and sin. We have
the ability to abolish the evil in this world by rejecting evil and
choosing good.
God
cannot stop evil - the only way to do that would be to take away our
free will - if he were to do that we would be nothing but puppets or
robots.
I don’t
want to give up my free will - do you? I don’t want God to just control
my every action and the actions of others. I want to fight against evil
and win. Life is a challenge - you don’t just get a ribbon for showing
up.
In
the parable of wheat and tares (Matt 13:24–30) Jesus explains that the
enemy has sown tares (weeds that look like wheat, but don’t bear fruit)
among the good wheat plants, and his servants want to go pull-up the
tares (unbelievers) so their presence doesn’t starve the wheat (the
believers) of nutrients - but the master said no - you might harm the
wheat when doing that. Let them grow together, and we’ll take them all
at harvest time.
Jesus
later describes this as an end-of-days scenario when he reconciles all
things, and the wheat is brought into the storehouse and the tares are
burned along with the chaff from the wheat.
The
threshing-floor is also an example, where people throw wheat and its
chaff into the air, and the wind carries the chaff away while the
heavier wheat falls to the floor. The wind is likened to heresy, such as
atheism, and its presence is necessary to assist in dividing the wheat
(believers) from the chaff (unbelievers).
God
knows how all this affects humans, and the affect he’s primarily
looking for is loyalty. Which of his creation will declare loyalty to
him, and this is only possible if they have a real choice, and the real
power to choose.
You
are correct in that God created time, and exists at the beginning of
time, the end of time, and all points in between, all at the same time.
This is why the Passover and the Crucifixion dovetail so perfectly,
because God sees them simultaneously. The Apostle John was whisked into
the future by God and shown things which John said physically transpired
on his eyes, not an ethereal vision - he said “I looked” and “I saw” -
literally seeing these things.
God
also says in times past he “winked” at sin. He turned a blind eye to
it. How can an infinite God turn a blind eye to anything? He does it
because he also has a choice, and turning a blind eye, in anticipation
of the ultimate solution (Jesus Christ) brought him greater glory that
to judge sin “in real time”.
A
the transfiguration, Jesus spoke to Elijah and Moses. These were not
resurrected ghosts or apparitions. Jesus clearly folded time and space
to bring these two prophets to him at the same time. Where the prophets
were standing, in their own time, and where Jesus was standing, in his
present time, were folded into one place and time. Is this why Jesus
glorified in this event, that to invoke such laws of the universe
required his higher powers above the physical plane, and his accessing
of those laws caused his heavenly glory to “bleed through” his earthly
body?
Lucifer didn’t create hell:
God
says he prepared the lake of fire for the devil and his angels and
their eternal punishment. He does not say human beings are eternally
“punished”. He likens it to the wheat and tares above, where the trash
is burned, and destroyed. “Fear him which is able to destroy both soul
and body in hell” (Matt 10:28)
Everyone
- believer and unbeliever, are resurrected (John 5:29) in soul and
body. Some are resurrected to life, others forever lost, annihilated,
perished.
Lucifer didn’t create sin:
“By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin” (Rom 5:12) -
It
is a common practice when building a large-scale, mission-critical
system, to have automatic recovery failsafes built-in to the primary
architecture, not an afterthought. It is not a “plan B” to fail-over,
but part of the original, planned architecture.
Jesus
is called “the lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:9) -
his Crucifixion to redeem the entire creation, not just mankind, is a
foundation stone of the whole creation, not an afterthought, or a God
scrambling to fix what is broken.
Omniscient
and omnipotent are not taught in the bible. What I am trying say is,
God doesn’t spell out specifically that he does both. It’s only human
point of view and assumption.
God
is all powerful but doesn’t necessary know 100% what’s going to happen.
If he did, then it had already happened and all this is just a rerun.
What was the whole point?
No,
God knew enough because he is wise and full of wisdom. As a father, if I
see my son carelessly jumping around with laptop in his hands you would
surely see me shouting at him that he is risking breaking the laptop
and advise him to put it down. Does that mean I am omniscient?
How
about if I told my son that I will take him to the pool next Sunday and
it’s Sunday, and we did go to the pool, does that mean I can predict
the future? It’s absurd when put it this way right? But that is exactly
what God does, he planned and then carried out his goals. He knew us
enough to know what is going to happen. He is God after all.
Finally,
remember the most the simplest answer is usually the correct answer.
God, our God is God of logic, reasons and order. No mind bending trick
or upside down thinking necessary. Trust in your instinct, if it doesn’t
make sense, you are probably right.
The
whole story of Lucifer is an urban myth based on a single verse in the
Bible that calls a pagan king by the name of a planet for poetic effect
as is common in prophecy.
There
never was a rebel angel, neither did any such character cause sin, nor
was there any creation of a place called hell. Anything you read about
these things in scripture have to be discerned in context.
The
questioner is completely deceived by popular mythology and a look at
that subject will reveal why it persists. Nothing of that story is in
the Bible but people love that kind of thing and will misread, misquote
and misconstrue the Bible and thereby accuse God himself without
blinking an eyelid, and still call themselves Christians.
First
of all, let me state that I believe the God, Satan/Lucifer and all the
rest as characters in a story … a story meant to transmit some teachings
to humanity, but a story nevertheless.
Back
to the God knows Lucifer would tempt. Well, that’s the whole idea isn’t
it?! How can you reward a person for being good if they haven’t been
tempted to be bad. If doing bad things was never a choice, you cannot be
considered good … you never had a choice. It is only when you are
tempted to expand yourself at the expense of others, to hurt others in
your process of following pleasures … that you are tested and you show
who you are. Again, I do not believe in this whole thing necessarily,
all I’m saying is, the problem is not with God … it’s with our choices.
I’m an atheist/agnostic myself, but I find those people who hate God to
be sc*m, most of the times. It is only when you are arrogant sc*m that
you hate God, otherwise you would at the most be indifferent and just
learn something from the story.
Affecting humans was the whole point of “the plan.”
It
was the all knowing, all perfect, all loving, all powerful
creator/judger’s utterly unnecessary, intentionally cruel way of
pretending to learn what it already knew about the souls it had created
(and which were already in heaven with it), in order to “judge” the
souls for being what it created them to be, allowing those it made well
to return and stay in heaven after a brief (earthly) departure while
blocking and abandoning the remainder to eternal suffering.
Makes “perfect” sense.
Ok turn it around Why would he stop Lucifer at all?
For Gog to be all good someone has to be all evil.
There isn’t “light” without “darkness’.
IF
God exist and he is good, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent why would
he create a being that is evil. So something there is wrong he must not
be good or omniscient or omnipotent or omnipresent or exist.
Pick one the best option and that is He doesn’t exist.
The other options are worse because then He exist has the power to end the suffering and does nothing.
P.S.:
I’m not trying to change the mind of anyone if you believe in any
God/God’s you have my respect for believing in something you can see or
feel, just having faith.
Where did you learn your theology?
Lucifer did NOT create Sin and Hell…
God created Sin as a test to humans and Hell as a punishment for their transgressions.
Lucifer was the 1st Angel- the one loved above all others by God.
But he argued with God about Humans (he thought God was wrong to allow pain and suffering or free-will) so God cast him out and made him guardian of Hell and the punisher of the sinful.
God judges how we face choices and if we sin…then decides whether or not to forgive us for it.
HOWEVER: If you are a TRUE Christian, you know that Christ died to save us from our Sins and all we have to do is acknowledge our sin, accept responsibility for what we did and ask forgiveness and we are saved.
God created Sin as a test to humans and Hell as a punishment for their transgressions.
Lucifer was the 1st Angel- the one loved above all others by God.
But he argued with God about Humans (he thought God was wrong to allow pain and suffering or free-will) so God cast him out and made him guardian of Hell and the punisher of the sinful.
God judges how we face choices and if we sin…then decides whether or not to forgive us for it.
HOWEVER: If you are a TRUE Christian, you know that Christ died to save us from our Sins and all we have to do is acknowledge our sin, accept responsibility for what we did and ask forgiveness and we are saved.
First off what a concoction of misinformation and preconceived ideas this question is. Yes God knows the beginning from the end
Second Lucifer is a preference to the planet Venus in Isiah 14 so nothing to do with a “devil”
Interestingly Jesus calls himself the bright and morning star in revelation 22 vs 16
*[[Rev
22:16]] KJ2000* I Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto you these
things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Hell is simply a hole in the ground in which you are buried when you die.
And sin is the freewill bad decisions we make and death is the consequences of those decisions.
You
give far too much credit to Lucifer, as do most people. Such things are
gnostic poppycock designed to sell entertainment Lucifer created
neither sin nor hell. They are not things created. They are the negation
ofnsomething. And why blame god for humans’ decisions. It was there
decision not his.
The
bible doesn’t teach either of those claims. Lucifer was the king of
Babylon. Sheol, hades, hell mean covered or unseen i.e. the grave. If
your serious about understanding the literature of the OT and NT authors
you are going to need to read up on it.
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